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Thomas DeLauer
Newly Discovered Cause of Insulin Resistance is Not Sugar or Saturated Fat - Dr. Venn Watson
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When you have iron plus Ross, right, and lipid proxidation all happening first in the liver the liver will stop producing the Appropriate amount of or it won't react appropriately to glucose So you start getting the onset of insulin resistance happening at the liver side Basically just because you have broken liver cells in which the liver is not responding appropriately to basically keeping our glucose Balanced at the same time once iron deposition and this whole process starts happening in our pancreas Our beta cells stop producing insulin So we've got kind of a one-two hit of both our pancreas and liver and when you combine those That then sets you up for metabolic syndrome, right? Which is this high Insulin or insulin resistance high glucose you get this middle, you know adiposity A weight gain and then that all sets you up for an increased risk of heart disease stroke and type 2 diabetes Dr.
Stephanie van Watson I had you on earlier this year, but there's a brand new study that just came out So it was absolutely worth bringing you right back on to talk about this So without further ado, let's just jump right into this because this is I'm gonna let you explain the science I'll ask some questions because this is one of the coolest studies that I've seen this year. Great.
Well, thanks Thomas Well, so we discovered the first nutritional deficiency syndrome in over 75 years so you think about things like vitamin C and scurvy and vitamin D deficiency in rickets We've discovered a deficiency syndrome Thanks to c15 deficiencies and it's called cellular fragility syndrome And so it's a giant discovery and what's so wonderful about discovering a nutritional deficiency Even though you know, it sounds devastating is that this is something we can detect Thomas and something we can fix So so excited to be able to be here to talk about this discovery and you know what it means for all of us What exactly is cellular fragility? So yes when we talk about, you know, our bodies are made out of cells so everything every part of us is made out of cells and Our cells are armored by these cell membranes And so the cell membranes are made out of lipids and they can become weak and what we've learned is that based upon the type Of fatty acids in the cell membrane dictates how strong or weak our cells membranes are and why do we care about that? Well, it's because when our cells become weak they undergo faster aging So basically they fall apart a lot faster They age faster that translates to us aging faster And so what's so important about this discovery is we've learned that over the past 12 years of research not just us But others around the world that if we don't have a certain level of C15 in our cell membrane this sturdy Saturated fatty acid in our cell membrane our cell membranes become weak We age faster than we should and we now think it may explain the onset of these aging associated diseases things like type 2 diabetes fatty liver disease heart disease Are increasing in younger younger people and now we think that the C15 deficiency syndrome cellular fragility syndrome May be the cause of why younger younger people are getting older diseases Is it just because the the cell becomes more like penetrable to like all these different things? Like how does how does that really work? How does a fragile cell membrane? Impact say like insulin resistance things like that.
Where's the interplay there? Yeah, so it's a fascinating story And it goes back to 2012 so back in 2012 There was a group of scientists at Columbia University And they published this paper in which they discovered an entirely new way that our cells were dying And it's called for optosis or for optosis.
We just say if you're in England, it's for optosis I'm not quite sure which way is the right way, but the key point being that these researchers Discovered entirely new way our cells were dying prior to this discovery There were only three known ways that our cells could die called apoptosis Necrosis and autophagy and this was just like you go to cell biology class, you know at your university Three ways our cells die great They discovered a fourth and what was really interesting about it Is that they discovered that there was a really unique way that our cells were starting to die and it started with Literally the way they explain it is that there's fragile fatty acids in the cell membrane that then results in Lipid peroxidation so lipid peroxidation is when you're fragile fats.
They then go bad so they get Exposed to oxygen attack oxygen.
They get lipid peroxidation So now you have that and then for some strange reason Iron is showing up inside of these cells and when you combine Lipid peroxidation with iron that results in massive production of these things called reactive oxygen species or Ross The Ross then go and kill our mitochondria and as we all know right from our third grade classes mitochondria is the powerhouse of our cells That knocks out our mitochondria I know you and Eric just worked out And I stood on the sidelines so that the nerd part was So yeah, so Powerhouses of our cells so basically then knocks out the batteries the energy producers of ourselves So when these scientists were looking under the microscope at Columbia University Thomas they were seeing intact cells with kind of strange looking cell membranes and All the mitochondria were killed and so they said this cell is dead.
What is happening? That was discovered it discovered in 2012 since then over 10,000 papers have been published on for off doses from around the world Nobody has understood despite all that science. Nobody has understood What causes fructosis? Why did it show up on our doorstep right about you a dozen years ago and? You know until now so now what we're finding is that C15 deficiency what this paper that we just published showed that C15 deficiency is causing the beginning the middle and the end of For optosis most importantly we've been able to show that putting C15 back into our bodies Fixes it all so really exciting times so with this study in particular.
How was it laid out? What did it? What exactly how did you discover this deficiency specifically with regard to this paper? Yeah, absolutely So it's really a culmination of the 12 years of studies So the same year 2012 when fructosis was discovered by Columbia University Which you know to be honest I didn't know about for many many years at the same year that paper was published We published a paper describing the strange a disease that was popping up in the Navy's dolphins and dolphins in the water And dolphins in the wild as well but increasingly there was this liver disease that was popping up in Navy dolphins and they had iron overload in their livers and they were getting fatty liver disease and insulin resistance and Things that older dolphins we get but we were starting to see it in younger younger dolphins So we were diving in to basically figure out what was happening with the dolphins what was causing it.
That's when we did Advanced technology called metabolomics We looked at thousands of small molecules in their fish diet and in their bodies to figure out which small molecules predicted This syndrome that we were seeing and that's where C15 Was one of the top predictors of dolphins who weren't getting this disease So that headed us down this pathway of taking C15 into the lab. We were then able to show in the lab that C15 helps to fix all components of fructose It stabilizes cell membranes by greater than 80% so it's you know stops it right at the top of the problem it Decreases lipid peroxidation it stops iron deposition.
So we'll talk a little more about that Which is another obviously key parts of ferro optosis the Pharaoh being iron. It stops the deposition of the iron it Decreases the amount of reactive oxygen species in the cell and it repaired Mitochondria so that whole series of studies we published back in 2020 In the paper in scientific reports and so really what's been happening since 2020 is it's been understanding more and more of what's been happening in people that has Overlapped with what's happening in dolphins and us understanding.
Oh my gosh, it's a decrease in C15 Globally that's happening in the dolphins It's because the types of fish they were eating are have less and less C15 in it as our waters are getting warmer Unfortunately, our fish are getting less fat There's actually a study that just came out in science showing that the world's fish are getting smaller Because the waters are warmer so they have less fat less C15 to the dolphins for us we have less C15 Globally, we've been doing so for over 50 years By taking C15 out of our diets because our primary source of C15 is dairy fat.
So we had this concurrent You know coincidental decrease in C15 and diets happening in dolphins and humans the result. However was the same which was for optosis Because of C15 deficiencies, that's so wild. So what I do know about fair optosis I mean a lot of it is it's iron deposition in the liver specifically. There's a like one of the big components of it, right? That's right So is that just sending like a cascade of high levels of Ross? Directly from the liver epicenter out of the liver and kind of radiating out from there Or is it just concentrated in the liver or is fair optosis occurring? Independent of the liver.
Is it not just happening there? I mean and and you may or may not know this What's actually causing the iron to just deposit there? I mean, why is it flocking to the liver and why is it just because it's trying to get metabolized? I don't know. I have questions. Yeah, it's a those are all great questions.
So and that's what's been kind of hanging out there It's like what how is this all happening, right? And so it's almost like science has gotten stuck in the weeds of looking at specific genes and little triggers inside the cell Meanwhile, we had this like real-life patient population that was getting this syndrome You know the dolphins and we were really able to understand exactly cleanly how this goes down so What we now understand is what's called the pathophysiology So the whole thing of how c15 deficiencies lead to this entire syndrome And it all starts with when we have low c15 in our cells that includes our red blood cells So let's start with our red blood cells.
So then those red blood cells become weak Now our body has a really good way of detecting weak red blood cells and saying you shouldn't be in the system anymore We're gonna take you out.
So you have these cells in the liver called macrophages and Their job is to basically engulf and eat all the weak red blood cells that we have in our body Which normally is a good thing But what happens when we have a lot of weak red blood cells because we have two little c15 in those cells The macrophages eat them and the corpses of the red blood cells that are left behind Yeah, so what happens is then it accumulates over time our bodies are still able to make these red blood cells So they get taken out the system.
We make more So, you know when you don't necessarily have anemia in the early stages But there is a measurement called red blood cell distribution with or RDW and it's one of the first things we saw in the dolphins Which just means that your red blood cell sizes are just there's a lot of variation There's some big ones some little ones. It just means that your body's working. You're losing red blood cells you're making them and you just have this mix of sizes, so it's one of the first hints of Something is going wrong and RDW is actually a predictor of longevity In people so we can get back to the whole longevity conversation.
So it's a fascinating metric that's gained a lot of traction So again, we think it's all tied to this for optosis. So The red blood cells become weak the iron or the the liver engulfs them You now have iron deposition in the liver. You now have an angry liver So now we're talking about a liver that's getting increased iron and along with these fragile cells in the liver as well So you have lipid peroxidation iron for optosis has now kicked in in the liver. So then what happens is the next Signal and sign are elevated liver enzymes.
So the liver is now saying hey, I'm getting a little bit angry here Because my cells are getting injured and that's one of the first signals they throw off From there then just like you were kind of getting to right is that what happens is when you get enough iron Overload in the liver you get a spillover effect.
You have increased Ross You have increased lipid peroxidation you have increased iron that iron lipid peroxidation And reactive oxygen species spill over into the blood and now they start seeding our whole bodies So it goes through these different stages and that's where now there's tons of papers talking about iron deposition in the brain in the heart In the pancreas and that's those are drivers for Alzheimer's disease heart disease Type 2 diabetes in addition to the initial liver disease.
So that's how we clearly understand it all happens We've been able to show that C15 reverses this entire process and it starts at the very beginning We just need to have stronger cells that stops this whole process from kicking off It's like the it's like the Roman Empire like starting in Rome They're like the liver and like creating these little depots everywhere else that then From there like cause problems there You know in the heart and the brain and whatnot because it's like it sounds like everywhere you have a potential iron deposition You have like another factory for Ross, right? You know another fact because it's like the more Oxidation that happens there the more it's gonna be exacerbated in that area.
That's right How does that particularly like with the the Ross and the iron depositions? How does that relate to? metabolic disease or metabolic dysfunction like specifically with like insulin resistance like how does High a high level of Ross or a high level of iron deposited somewhere Impact insulin resistance because I think for most people that's a it's a hard thing to bridge right? It's like, okay We've got Ross, but how does that impact glucose and my you know that yeah, absolutely So so we now understand we now know that when you have iron plus Ross and lipid peroxidation all happening first in the liver the liver will stop producing the Appropriate amount of or it won't react appropriately to glucose So you start getting the onset of insulin resistance happening at the liver side basically just because you have broken liver cells In which the liver is not responding appropriately to basically keeping our glucose balanced at the same time Once iron deposition and this whole process starts happening in our pancreas our beta cells stop producing insulin So we've got kind of a one-two hit of both our pancreas and liver and when you combine those That then sets you up for metabolic syndrome, right? Which is this high Insulin or insulin resistance high glucose you get this middle, you know adiposity Weight gain and then that all sets you up for an increased risk of heart disease stroke and type 2 diabetes where we caught the dolphins was right at that stage of Basically metabolic syndrome before it had advanced to these advanced, you know conditions So it was really at the perfect spot to understand the pathophysiology leading to that Wow.
So does a c15 deficiency Are you starting to see direct links? Maybe not so like right now it's easy to say there's a potential indirect link because you've got the metabolic piece and that could affect Cardio-metabolic and you know cardiovascular disease and whatnot Are there any signs that there's direct links with c15 deficiency and for a pop for a ptosis and cardiovascular disease like independent of the metabolic side Yeah, there is so with regard to you know the dolphins were an interesting and again a clean model in which because they weren't getting enough c15 in their diet because the Fish had less c15 that we were able to see this we're able then to repeat this in the lab So to be able to show directly that there are models of for a ptosis that then we could show that c15 could fix it So we've got you know the side that the dolphins are indicating c15 deficiencies cause it Able to show in a model that c15 fixes it.
So then we start moving to the human data, right? And this is where we see where we explain in the paper, which is a beast of a paper So if you're trying to sleep That could help you sleep just by trying to get through this paper. So but what it works through this logical Arguments with regard to okay.
What is for up to us is known to do it is known to Increase our risk of heart disease type 2 diabetes and fatty liver disease It's really what we focus on not only does it increase the risk of it But it speeds up the onset of these diseases and it makes it more aggressive So if we talk about younger people so people with younger kids people less than 20 years old Getting type 2 diabetes, right? So type 2 diabetes used to be an adult onset disease and we used to call type 1 diabetes juvenile onset Okay, so at some point I'm about when all of this started happening Children started getting type 2 diabetes and not only that but they're more Aggressive than the type 2 diabetes that we're used to seeing they have a higher risk rate and of Complications and even kids with type 1 diabetes which that in itself is a devastating disease So for up to us is in this process is showing up in younger people.
It's explaining how they're getting more aggressive diseases faster people between 18 to 44 year old 44 years old increasingly getting coronary heart disease I mean we were on an amazing trajectory of decreasing heart disease for decades Still the same case for people over 50.
So like I'm in the clear but for younger people the increased risk of type of Heart disease is has been going way up when I get back to type 2 diabetes 673 percent increase is expected in young people by the year 2030 in type 2 diabetes So it's really and then we talk about fatty liver disease, right? This is a disease that didn't exist before a paper was published by the Mayo Clinic in 1980 They found the first 20 patients with fatty liver disease That wasn't associated with alcohol right prior you see this disease.
It was always associated with alcohol consumption Which is why they called it non alcoholic fatty liver disease or non alcoholic status hepatitis So Mayo Clinic publishes this, you know first 20 cases in 1980 today It's now impacting one in three people globally and one in ten children So there's this been this big mercy of how is it happening? We're all understanding that fructose is driving this process and the speed up of the problem and Now it's being able to say okay The study is now linking showing people with higher c15 levels lower risk of type 2 diabetes heart disease and fatty liver disease And this isn't just one study or two study.
These are a meta analyses of thousands of people over decades of time Consistently showing how much basically, you know c15 we need in order to protect against getting these diseases I mean, it's almost like we've been looking at so many things in isolation, which we we should but at the same time I mean, it sounds like it's accelerated aging is like really what's happening It's like we're just finding that like people at a younger age are experiencing problems that shouldn't be an issue Maybe at all but are you know previously the issue and they're over 50 60 years old and it's like everything's just accelerating So it's like, okay here we are looking at these sole things.
Okay, like cardiovascular or diabetes We're not looking at dare.
I say the root I hate when people say the root because it sounds kind of cheesy, but it's like okay Like the root really seems like okay, we're just moving through this so fast and I'm kind of thinking Again like an iron deposition and reactive oxygen species It's death by a thousand cuts, it's like you've got an iron deposition I know we've talked about this before but like you leave, you know A bunch of anvils or a bunch of dumbbells out in the elements, right? It's like, okay if you had a little bit of oxygen They would rust and they would you know have a problem a little bit of the elements They would have a problem, but as the weather gets worse, it would just it oxidized even more, right? So it's like okay.
Sure the iron deposition as a result of this deficiency is problematic But then you combine that with the crappy lifestyle and it's like almost literally throwing gasoline on this fire, right? It's just it's just gonna take off from there. Yeah, that's exactly it I mean examples include, you know as far as you know when you talk to Pediatricians these days and especially like we work with Dr. Jeff Schwimmer He's one of the leaders in pediatric fatty liver disease And you know we talked about and we brought up this idea of like accelerated aging in kids and Accelerated aging and kids and like I didn't even get to finish the sentence.
He's like, oh no This is absolutely what's happening like kids are getting the diseases of their grandparents before their parents get them He's like it's unquestionable. There's accelerated aging happening in these kids It's not only impacting their kind of like you see them getting high blood pressure and high cholesterol I mean, it's just you know, it's and because and there are you know mental health Problems that are coming with it.
It's you know, there's just this giant You know ball of twine that is just like that they're getting caught up in so There isn't C15 is not like oh and that's it and that's the only problem and that you know It's but a lot of it as far as you know when we look back and you look back at what is causing this Why are younger people getting these diseases? A lot of people fall back on obesity Well, it's like well, you know kids are more obese and this is what happens with obesity and it's a pretty simple problem They also talk about trans fats or there's too much ultra processed foods and those are all likely contributors to the problem But for us it's like we go back to the Dolphins and the Dolphins aren't obese They aren't getting you know ultra processed foods and they're not eating a bunch of trans fatty acids so for them they again provided this amazingly clean picture of they Decreased their amount of C15 we can now quantify how much C15 needs to be in those cells It's zero point two percent of fatty acids in our cell membrane.
We need At least that for that cell membrane to stay intact You have less C15 than that and that is now what we're defining as Nutritional deficiency syndrome or now makes a lot of sense cellular fragility syndrome So the good thing is we can now measure and detect how much is in there and then You know detect who has the deficiencies and most importantly how to fix it How can we get our world back to? Where we could have these healthy cells that are meant to keep us alive and long and healthy for a long long period of time I don't know if you know listeners understand the the magnitude because it took me a long time to like understand the magnitude of like what a true Clinical deficiency is like we haven't had a clinical deficiency That we could say is a legit clinical deficiency.
I think it was a oh I'm deficient in vitamin B because I'm you know vegan or whatever like It's not a clinical deficiency.
Like first of all, like a lot of the deficiencies we talk about are it's guesswork It's not a we can assume or we can get a micronutrient panel and see that we're moderately deficient something but a clinical deficiency Like a real deficiency That's big news and that's you know, why this paper is is the real deal to actually demonstrate that we're seeing Widespread like this is a legit deficiency just like vitamin C deficiency causes scurvy and just like like the real deal Yeah, I mean it's what was critical for this paper was to be able to define the pathophysiology of it So you can't just say oh, this is a normal, you know Bell curve for c15 levels in people and if you have the low level you're deficient, right? It's like no It's like it's a nutritional deficiency requires one that the thing that you're calling deficient that Nutrient has to be essential So it means that we have to get certain amounts our body has to have certain amounts of it in order to just maintain Baseline health and in the absence of it we fall apart, right and that's very very rare So we're talking about our vitamins rates of vitamin C vitamin D and then the second part is that Not only proof that if levels are low you develop a disease because of those levels But when you restore that nutrient back into the system that then that specific deficiency syndrome is Fixed and so that's what this paper goes in incredible detail 150 or 142 reference up for six days Get your highlighter out and but you know So it's that it goes into detail of basically checking off all of those boxes Where you know, it's it's now it's it is well defined.
It is shown that it's caused by Deficiencies in c15.
It is fixed by c15 It's very definable and this all of this showed up for optosis this accelerated aging all of it showed up at the same time We've been taking c15 out of our diets So this you know experiment that we've done over the last 50 years unintentionally for bad reasons, you know has by taking c15 out of our diets We've basically, you know tested the hypothesis of is c15 really an essential fatty acid Which is what we discovered, you know back in 2020 I want to talk about sardinia for a second because like sardinia is very interesting anyway from a longevity perspective I've done pretty detailed videos on just multiple aspects I mean not ranging from like the the grapes grown at high altitudes for the specific wine the mastic oil even mastic gum like other components of their diet like a lot of dairy from sheep a lot of like very interesting diet and in isolation Sardinia is one of the most unique Blue zones to begin with like it's it has its own outlying Aspects of it that are different from the other blue zones independently And I don't want to you know go off on my own high horse about it but it's just so interesting like yeah protein consumption is a little bit higher in sardinia than a lot of the other ones and And you mentioned something before we were filming about sardinia that I didn't know and that was about Specific kind of cheese that they eat there and I want to kind of double down on that because that's really interesting Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Yeah, absolutely So so, you know sardinia is fast.
You're correct. Very fascinating with regard to you know It's one of the five longevity blue zones as you mentioned Thomas and so with sardinia the other thing that's unique about it You know because called the island of centenarians, right? Where people are most likely to live to a hundred years old and specifically men. So this actually has the largest Population or relative population of long-lived centenarian men of anywhere in the world even because normally women live longer Yeah, exactly.
So it's like oh so something you're right that something is very unique of what's happening in sardinia So as we were going through the papers and working through, okay What are normal levels of c15 because we what we do in the paper is we help define Nutritional deficiency, you know what's low what's normal and now what may be? Optimal c15 level so we have the opportunity here to maybe not just get back to where we were to the healthy levels Levels where our cells keep us healthy the way nature intended for maybe most of us But sardinia is providing a clue that there may be a way that if we push c15 levels even higher We can actually help support longevity.
And so with sardinia they have levels so on average The average person today has c15 levels in their cell membranes a point two percent of total fatty acids Which is right that breaking point.
It's like you may or may not get disease whether you're on either side of that point two percent in sardinia Even as you look at the older people and our c15 levels naturally decline as we get older, right? So we're talking point two percent in your average Aged population so in sardinia, they looked at 60 to 75 year olds and they have c15 levels of point six four So so more than three times higher C15 levels are like what and so this paper came out from Mankat all Showing and where they called out.
Hey people in sardinia have very high c15 levels And so when we looked into that and then we even when they get to 80 to 100 It does go down as they age but even the 80 to 100 plus or still have 0. 4% And when they compare that to low longevity, so I should even put in quotes to a low longevity zone The low longevity zone had point two percent. So basically the world is in a low longevity zone C15 level so and we get back to sardinia. It's like, okay.
Well, how are they getting c15 levels? So hi, there's a whole lot of hope here, right? So it's like how are they doing it? So when we looked at sardinia and just basically all the papers tons of papers published on sardinia We found that they just like you'd mentioned They have they met the first all the food that they eat comes from what they make so it's local and There they have Primarily replaced meat with dairy. So meat is only eaten maybe once a week on Sundays and special occasions Otherwise, they basically repeat replaced where most people eat meat with dairy the dairy which is can be up to 25% of the caloric intake is dairy.
I'm not recommending that For just in general but remarkable, right? So Where we hit the sweet spot is the type of dairy they're eating So they are goat and sheep herders as you had mentioned they it is in an amount in this region of the island of sardinia and The goats and the sheep are grazing on mountainous grass Now other studies have shown that not only does do grass-fed animals produce milk with higher c15 So if you take a cow and you feed it grass just any type of grass It will have twice as much c15 in its milk than a cow that is fed a hundred percent corn So there's already a right a huge differentiated in there.
So we know that eating the grass There are other studies show that not only is eating grass gonna help but the higher the altitude the grass The higher the c15 in their milk.
So now you've got Grat mountainous grass eating local goats and sheep creating this Milk that is very high in c15 So like double the amount of c15 as other animals and we know why right? It's they're eating mountainous grass closer to the Sun perhaps maybe like something's happening in the grass there very well could be I mean The same thing was repeated in the Alps So they went there was a separate study done in the Alps and they showed that the Alp grass Had led to higher c15 in milk and cows that were grazing in alpine grass versus others.
So, you know This is actionable, right? So this is something that can be done Not necessarily industry-wide but there shows that there's hope for us to be able to get c15 higher c15 back into our dairy So when we look at the cheeses, they eat they eat pecorino cheese, which is a hard sheep cheese and Pecorino cheese has c15 levels that are twice as much as even cows butter which was previously seen as like the high c15 one So pecorino cheese great. They have another type of cheese that they eat.
That's like a soft goat cheese that they age for 30 days and What study showed is that the c15 in those are the fatty acids in that cheese are actually free fatty acids So if there's over that aging period the fatty acids go from these complex lipids to these like easy and bioavailable Free fatty acids and not only you have c15 higher c15.
It's now more bioavailable because it's a free fatty acid so then you add those together and it's like that's how they're getting high c15 and And associated with lower heart disease So people in sardinia live longer because they're less likely to die of heart disease, which is why men are living longer And now numerous studies showing that people with higher c15 Especially between point four to point five five percent lower risk of eating heart disease So, you know everything starts coming together with regard to sardinia is giving us a lot of hope that can we repeat that? You know model globally it's I know there is some literature over a decade ago to on like high-altitude Cows in Switzerland and the cheese having higher levels of conjugated linoleic acid as well Which is again another you know, really important compound when you look at so in just declare for like c15 This is an essential fat.
Those body can't create it. So it has to come from the diet. That's right Yeah, so it's you know, because I know obviously there's there's certain compounds in the body or say well Maybe we could dig a little deeper and understand why we're not producing enough of it. Yada. Yada of it This isn't the case. This is purely something we would get from the diet.
Yeah, exactly and so, you know there there is our body has some production of C15 as some of it can come from when we eat fiber That fiber contains in ulin and ulin feeds microbes in our gut and those microbes can use in ulin to make c15 So there's some production.
It's still coming from the diet because we're eating the fiber And that you know that can create some c15 the big thing with regard to the essential fatty acid, you know That you're talking about Thomas is that do we make enough? C15 to be able to support The you know long-term health and what it appears to be is that we can get enough Our bodies can do enough to get to or whatever we're eating Whatever it is that we're eating gets a successfully to this point 2% But we need to get above that and it's not that much more It's just like we just have to get out of this danger zone and get into the safe zone of having ourselves stable enough It it appears to be very clear that we have to have some amount of c15 in our diet To be able to achieve those levels and hence the essentiality.
Yeah, I mean, it's not it's not realistic I mean as much as I would love to pack up and move to Sardinia Wouldn't complain like it's not realistic for us to get 25% of our calories from you know from dairy That's just unrealistic. So it's you know, when you look at okay sure these populations They've got it going on.
Like I mean, I know from the case of Sardinia Happiness scores with men are significantly higher I know like they the men have I can't remember what they it's a specific term for but the men have more Dedicated like social time whereas like in other regions men are a little bit more isolated also focused on work and things like that there's a like a lifestyle component that Allows men a little bit more of this like social aspect that is seems higher than in other regions So there's a happiness score with the men So that might add into that.
I mean the whole lifestyle with Sardinia is amazing Obviously the like the mineral profile they get from the shellfish It's you talk about death by a thousand cuts in this case like the other right? It's like it's like they've just got In isolation so many things going for them and then You look at okay. Well if we even tried to engineer that into our lives in the United States first of all, I Don't think that it would be the same equation with bovine milk You know, so you go to the US and it's like I mean, I don't know the statistic if I had to guess it's probably more Than 98 percent is consumption of bovine milk versus goat milk.
Most people I talked to don't even like go I love goat milk and goat cheese most people just want so it's like okay already you're at a lower amount of c15 to begin with not to mention I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this but there's probably less pasteurization and stuff occurring like in Sardinia Like probably more raw milk consumption and you know, that's only allowed in eight states in the United States to even have raw milk in The first place so who knows I don't you might know I mean if the pasteurization breaks down some of the c15 I don't know.
It's the bottom line is like it's probably unrealistic To get adequate amounts of c15, you know from from the diet, you know via dairy in the United States Yeah, and I think you know Thomas is it's a good point like we used to and because it seems like we used to get enough and Because the point is, you know gosh over what's been happening That's accelerated aging the increase in type 2 diabetes and heart disease and you know fatty liver disease showing up Something is worse now than it was before like prior 1990 and you know 1990s is when 1977 is when Congress released recommendations saying hey saturated all saturated fats are bad for you Specifically stop drinking whole fat milk and stop eating butter and that will save your hearts that ended up Being partly true and partly devastating, right? So in in that whole dairy fat It contains that from from cows has one less one or less than 1% C15 of all the fats it has more than 40% pro-inflammatory saturated fats So c15, you know even in dairy fat, especially the ones that we're talking about you know, not in sardinia are kind of having to go an uphill battle with regard to C15 be able to do it's a good job battling against this, you know Much higher levels is pro-inflammatory fats other studies have shown that the higher fat we eat With c15 in it the less likely our c15 levels will actually go down And that is because when we go to absorb all those fats at the same time in the food C15 loses and so we have a higher tendency to absorb these pro-inflammatory fats versus c15 So there are a lot of things that kind of put dairy at odds There's hope because it's worse than it was so then the question is can we get to sardinian? Level, you know, which is which is your challenge, right? personally Challenge globally challenge accepted.
All right good deals go have some peckerino.
So so You know, can we get to sardinia? Even if we were at 1950s, you know us Probably not because of all these other challenges the last part to put in with regard to dairy is that there was a group of Panelists and so these were experts in dairy fat and in nutrition they met in Europe back in 2017 and they asked this question which is okay whole dairy fat or individual ingredients within Within dairy fat is there really a difference because we're always taught that whole food is better and in most cases This is absolutely true What they concluded is that dairy fat because there are over 400 fatty acids They're just a lot happening dairy, but we were talking about how much variation there can be in dairy fat that Thousands of studies being done on dairy fat conclude that you can it does not reliably Improve our metabolic heart and liver health there are studies that show that it does There are just as many studies showing that it doesn't so their conclusion was you can't just eat more dairy fat To get these individual nutrients to support your metabolic heart and liver health what they did conclude is that individual nutrients within dairy fat Can have a beneficial effect, but they have to be taken out of that Millie what they call the matrix in order to be able to have their effect and this sounds like a spin But it's you know, this is a group that has no bias And what they their conclusion is there are just times in which you know We can use nature to find a nutrient that can really shine when it doesn't need to compete especially with these changes in agriculture That we're have less and less control over so that was a really long answer No, but it's I mean it's and part of me thinks too is like okay the sardinians also eat in a pretty Consistent deficit all the time right so it's like you can't deny the literature that supports heavy saturated fat consumption being problematic Specifically in a surplus right like that's like I haven't seen a lot of data to support like I just don't think the cohort really exists To be like hey like let's look at people that consume high amounts of saturated fat But they're also in a deficit like that pretty much doesn't exist in America like if you're eating saturated fat You are probably in the category like high amounts of saturated fat you're not doing a carnivore diet You're not doing this you're probably in the category of people that are getting saturated fat from fried foods And so it's just the cohort doesn't exist.
We can't look at that, you know So it's like you look at sardinia It's like sure their saturated fat consumption as a percentage of their diet is probably astronomically high, but they're also Living in a probably consistent 10 to 15 percent deficit And they're probably having all these other factors that are positively compounding that right so if the saturated fat the There's less it's granted a little bit of amnesty because it's overridden by all this other positive stuff You apply that to the US if you were to tell people in the US.
It's almost dangerous It would almost be irresponsible to say hey United States as a whole people that don't have nutrition education You need to eat more cheese is the first thing they're gonna probably do is go to disarbees have cheese But like they're you know, they're gonna go and ask for more queso, right? It's it's different I guess I understand the issue there.
I Know that you know c15 just like other you know, some other things like you can get in supplement form I know you guys do a great job with fatty 15 and c15 there and I'll link out to that down below But I mean it sounds like that's I mean really the way to go for specific c15 like in isolation Yeah, I think you know, there are Multiple things we need to do right and so Because now that there is it really is a true nutritional deficiency syndrome.
We need to fix it So if you know you find out that scurvy is caused by vitamin C deficiency You don't come up with other ways other than like what let's start with getting vitamin C Back and so same thing here. And so there are multiple ways to be able to bring a c15 back into our lives You know Eric, you know Navy physician husband and I this was all discovered when we were working at the Navy, you know as you know I'm myself as a civil servant and you know, Eric is active duty.
So As we were doing the science and the studies what became apparent to us is that and working in cooperation with the Navy is That we had an opportunity for a pure c15 Ingredient to be able to be more potent bioavailable vegan friendly To help with this problem. So it wasn't to create a market Right.
It's like unfortunately the dolphins were showing there is a need and you know, the military way is that if you have a problem Research is invested on how to fix it, which is why all of this work I know this sounds crazy, but it's like office enable research funded this work and it was specifically to say hey We've identified the syndrome in dolphins Here's the money to do the research to figure out what the problem is and to fix it and you have X number of years it is not like you spend your career Working on little intricacies of it and publishing papers.
It is a the problem that you solve go fix it And so which we did and we did it and you know for the dolphins we did in about four years time Because that's what you do with military so This really was this whole thing was born from saying hey we see a problem it started with Navy dolphins, right and then now that extended to now Global health and so it's a problem and so one way to fix it one part of the solution is to have a pure ingredient that Basically helps take over or puts aside these other barriers, you know having to compete with pro-inflammatory saturated fats Let it be vegan friendly Have it well controlled so that is more than 99.
8% pure at the exact amounts We need we now know that the average person needs between 100 to 2 milligrams at least of pure bioavailable c15 per day So that is what the dose of fatty 15 was so this is all driven by a decade of science before We even thought of bringing, you know this ingredient to the market We do feel strongly that this ingredient will play an important role with regard to for not just as a supplement before defying foods How do we increase accessibility to c15 globally because this problem is not just in the US, you know It's everywhere mostly in developed Countries because we've created this problem And on top of that, okay, what can we learn from sardinia? Okay, so maybe you know cows We should be feeding them more grass Let's put pressure on the industry to be able to report for dairy products report How much c15 is in your product so that when consumers go to the store? They can look at the different dairy products and say if I'm gonna choose butter a or butter B I'm gonna choose the one that has higher c15 in it.
So I think there are ways we can move forward Another one is with kids, you know pediatricians in the 1990s really made this movement of saying we went from All-americans should avoid eating whole fat drinking whole fat dairy and eating butter and that was 1977 through 1990 then around 1990 1991 the pediatric community came in Again all with good intentions, but they then said okay young children infants and toddlers should not get whole fat milk and It was pretty bold at the time So we went from before 1990 a 12 month old child 90% of them will have had whole fat milk by the time they're one Today it's less than 10% of children have been exposed to whole fat Cow's milk.
So it's been a dramatic. So now we're talking about the youngest of young Not getting adequate c15 levels even from mom's milk because if mom is c15 deficient She's less c15 in her milk.
So we're talking about deficiencies that are Starting at birth, which is why we're seeing this translating to these are now people turning 30 years old Yeah, I mean we have massive like cell differentiation that's occurring at that age and it's like who knows even epigenetically who knows like What that's doing for them how it's setting them up for or not setting them up for success Right, it's like such a pivotal time Yeah, there's a study that just came out In fact, it's a preprint right now that showed in which it's a big study done in France and they follow moms from pregnancy and then they through baby being born through the children developing and right now there we have the kids up to I Think about 11 years old and some of the oldest ones in the cohort and what the preprint shows is that moms who had less c15 in their red blood cell membrane during pregnancy and in the in their milk Resulted in kids if they had lower c15 The kids don't perform as well as two-year-olds three-year-olds at five and six-year-olds cognitively So it's just you know, like you're saying What does this mean from a developmental level and so that it's not like oh therefore all infants should get fatty 15, right? This is like how about why don't we start by getting whole fat milk? safely, you know back into you know into our youngest of young and you know things like Infant formulas have no c15 in them No, and so separate papers, you know made a call to ash and saying we should be putting c15 fortifying c15 and Infant formulas because it's becoming clear and clear.
This is an essential nutrient.
We need so there's a lot of things to be done We think you know fatty 15 and supplements part of the solution But we're really working with the whole community goal community to fix, you know a big problem The upside is there's so much hope because there's a solution Yeah, I mean it's like I and I have mixed feelings on like fortification of foods But at the same time it's like this is something where I mean is that in your crosshairs at all like just being like, okay We've got like good, you know dairy product like okay We fortify with vitamin D because we saw that as an issue Like is there is it in your crosshairs to say like hey like we can or where's your stance on fortification with the c15 Yeah, I think in this case, it's you know, it's c15.
It's it's the next natural Biggest impact step.
So, you know supplements are great because people could choose and we have super savvy Customers who do the deep dive on the science who listen to you know You're podcast and you know are ready to learn or diving in they have a lot of knowledge They come back with really smart questions, which we greatly appreciate And they're ready to come in and be like the early adopters, right and And so supplementation is a great place to start where really the global impact can be is going to be fortification of Foods and the nice thing about c15 as an ingredient is it's really stable So a lot of times we think about fats and fatty acids like omega-3 and omega-6 is those are oils.
Those are just tough Those are just tough Like you may get attacked by oxygen so they go bad really fast We happen to be gifted with c15 in which its whole role is a stabilizer So it stabilizes ourselves a big part of that is because it's not an oil, right? It's a it's a Stable powder at room temperature.
So that means it doesn't go bad so this means it's just prime to be able to fortify foods in Anywhere in the world and be a stable way to you know, get this nutrient, you know back into people's lives affordably so that's really our next step is how do we Use this as part of you know a broad solution Is there a way for people to? Like see where their c15 levels are at or I mean is that is that even possible now or is it really just right now? It takes pretty extensive work So it used to be where you needed to get a fatty acid panel Which isn't the end of the world but it's not like you any of us go to our doctors and they're like, oh here Here's your fatty acid I don't know if you not everyone's a you know, I don't know if anyone saw the South Park episode on the It was the ozempic episode but like not quote of the song the navigating the American healthcare system song That butters was singing.
I just it's amazing and it just just so I'm just saying like okay Here's me going to go get an essential fatty acid panel It's gonna take me two weeks of going to four different doctors and calling. Yeah Yeah fits right along butters was right. I mean the fact that it's butter is kind of Butters, um, so uh, so now So there are a lot of functional um physicians and healthcare practitioners that have been using a fatty acid panel for Maybe at least the fat last five years that has included c15 So we've talked to a lot of as we've been working with a lot of functional medicine practitioners.
They're like, oh my gosh, wait We've actually been collecting c15 We didn't know whether we should care about it and as they're going back thomas they're like writing us back and they're like oh my gosh, we see like 12 percent of the people that you know of our you know patients that we've been looking at over the past five years 12 percent are unquestionable like we're talking like point. Oh two percent point. Oh four versus point two, right and And then another 12 to 14 percent being in this like less than point two to you know, point one percent And so they're like, no, this is real. We're like, well, yeah You're it's definitely real.
So the test has been available What we're now doing is we've partnered with jenova diagnostics to be able to have an at-home spot test For c15 so that people can get their c15 levels measured Um via jenova, so this is theirs independent but as we were making these discoveries Obviously the next next natural question is well, that's great.
But how do I know what my c15 levels are? So now there's a way to be able to do that I'd be curious to test my now I was just in europe for a month and I think I like pretty much only the only thing I ate was like drinking like six lattes a day and Eating cheese and the occasional prosciutto and that was like my diet for a month.
So Yeah, I think you're probably in that point three point four point fours are not quite serdidian but get close Do you actually see is it something that builds up over time or do you see a pretty rapid increase upon like? Increasing not only diet but also supplementation form of it Yeah So in general it takes I mean to to safely get to understand where you're at the nice thing that This test measures it actually measures the amount of c15 in your red blood cell membranes So other tests might measure serum and plasma which kind of gets to where you're so you might have the spike that goes up and down It's also reliable like when you talk about glucose versus hb a1c This would be your the red blood cell membranes like your hb a1c.
So it's a more stable measurement and It's stabilizing your cell membrane.
So to actually get that measurement of your cell membranes is the most directly important So it measures those levels that you're able to work off of from there interesting Well, I will most importantly link out to the study down because I do know that and I hope the viewers know that You know the more eyeballs that get on a study the better like it's algorithmic just like everything else in the world now So, you know get eyeballs on the study because this is one of those things where it's like people say Why isn't this front page news? It's like we focus on so many other things and this is this is clear legit science This is not fringe weird science cherry picking connect the dots bs Like this is real stuff and it needs the eyeballs on it And that's why I brought you here and I know yes You have a supplement company with c15 and i'll link out to that down below But that was not the purpose of this video the purpose is like let's get eyeballs on this study because People legitimately need to know this.
Yeah. Thanks thomas I mean we call ourselves a team of nerdy do-gooders and Our whole purpose is really to help improve global health. That was our job as a military family It's our job, you know with this company. So thank you for helping to get the word out. Awesome Thank you for coming and Thanks eric for the workout this morning All right, so uh, as always keep it locked into the channel i'll link out to everything down below and thank you great Thank you.
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